On the Other Hand

#159, OTOH, Part 1, Elizabeth Henry-McKeever, Priest, St. Elizabeth’s Episcopal church in Little Rock, April 16, 2026

In this first part of a three-part conversation with the Reverend Elizabeth Henry-McKeever, Priest at St. Michael’s Episcopal church in Little Rock, Glen and April explore with Elizabeth the winding road that led her from high school healing prayers to ordination—with a detour through non-profit communications and fundraising along the way. Elizabeth reflects on what it means to create genuinely welcoming spaces for people of all faith backgrounds, introduces us to St. Michael's countercultural founding story (1968, and proud of it), and makes a compelling case that doubt isn't the enemy of faith—it may be the very thing that keeps faith honest. A thoughtful conversation for anyone who has ever wrestled with big questions and wondered whether that wrestling was a problem or a gift.

#158, OTOH, Arkansas state Senators Clarke Tucker & Jonathan Dismang, April 15, 2026, Part 2

The headline version of Arkansas politics is division. The reality, according to AR Senators Clarke Tucker and Jonathan Dismang, is considerably more cooperative — it just happens behind the scenes. In Part 2, both senators describe how they navigate governors of either party (honesty about disagreements, focus on genuine overlap), why the appearance of dysfunction owes more to safe seats and hyper-partisan primaries than to actual legislator behavior, and how they set multi-year goals shaped by constituent feedback rather than election cycles. Clarke's approach: be upfront about where you'll disagree, then focus energy on the substantial overlap that remains. Jonathan underscored that the real work happens before anything goes public; quiet, behind-the-scenes negotiation is where durable agreements are built. Their closing message is optimistic and concrete: Arkansas is trending in a positive direction, civic engagement matters, and local journalism is not optional for a healthy democracy. Getting involved — in your community, across political lines — is where hope actually lives.

#157, OTOH, Arkansas state Senators Clarke Tucker & Jonathan Dismang, Part 1, April 15, 2026

In Part 1 of their On the Other Hand conversation, Arkansas State Senators Clarke Tucker (D) and Jonathan Dismang (R) explore with April and Glen what genuine bipartisan collaboration looks like in a state legislature. Their view is that it starts with something simpler than policy: relationship. The two trace their working partnership, built on personal connection and shared concern over food insecurity, which grew into a multi-year push to expand free school meals. Their 2023 win — eliminating reduced-price meal copays for 49,000 Arkansas families — is a model of how they operate: realistic goals, thorough preparation, and making sure every co-sponsor actually understands what they're signing. Both of them provide pointed advice for anyone tired of political tribalism: get off cable news and social media, and go have a real conversation with someone who disagrees with you. Most legislative work, both senators noted, isn't partisan — it just rarely makes the news.

OTOH #156, Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, April 6 2026. part 2

In Part 2 or our conversation with Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, Kevin opens up about what genuine bridge-building actually looks like from the inside. He's enthusiastic about Braver Angels and its contributions, but he's equally blunt about what doesn't work: "performative peacemaking" — the kind of conflict avoidance that mistakes niceness for progress. Real dialogue, Kevin argues, requires sincerity, integrity, and the courage to engage difficult differences rather than paper over them. Then comes a moment of refreshing self-disclosure. When Kevin reached out to friends to brainstorm how to connect across political and social divides, he realized — mid-call — he had been operating under an unconscious bias. Hear from Kevin about this moment of honest self-reckoning, a process he says is essential before any meaningful conversation can happen with others. The episode also touches on religious diversity, the surprising common ground found between thinkers as different as Robbie George and Cornel West, and what it might take to build a more inclusive Arkansas — though Kevin is candid that he doesn't have all the answers. A conversation marked by humility, hard questions, and genuine hope.

OTOH #155, Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, part 1, April 6 2026

In this first part of Glen and John’s interview with local physician, writer and community activist Dr. Kevin Heifner, we wondered: what does a nephrologist with 35 years of practice have to say about faith, politics, and the state of American civic life? Quite a lot, it turns out. Kevin talks about the community work that keeps him engaged beyond the exam room — and why the same ethic that drives him to treat every patient equally drives his passion for bridging divides in public life. Shaped by a father who traded the pulpit for philosophy, Kevin brings a nuanced, shades-of-gray perspective to questions of faith and social ethics, including his work with Good Faith Media and the Baptist Center for Ethics. The conversation gets lively when the labels come out — or rather, when Kevin pushes back on them. "Progressive." "Conservative." He argues these words don't clarify; they dehumanize. And in a culture built on tribal sorting, that's a problem worth talking about honestly. A conversation that doesn't flinch from the hard questions.
 

#154, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Part 3, March 25, 2026

In this third & final part of our interview with Robert Steinbuch, law professor and government transparency advocate, Glen and April explore several key issues with Rob. He outlines the tension between FOIA's essential role in exposing government behavior and the equally legitimate need to protect private citizens' personal information — and candidly addresses why ordinary people struggle to enforce their own privacy and defamation rights when attorneys won't take the cases. Rob turns a critical eye on legal academia itself, describing what he sees as a pronounced left-of-center monoculture in law schools, and he recounts the controversy at UA - Fayetteville's Law School, where legislative pushback over a dean search put the tension between academic independence and government accountability on full public display. He reflects on his view of the proper — and improper — roles of government in institutional hiring at state-funded universities. The conversation broadens to Arkansas's societal divides, where Rob argues that while political polarization gets the headlines, economic and racial fault lines run just as deep. He closes with a personal story from a Republican Party meeting where he chose procedural fairness over possible strategic advantage, and he shares reflections from his experience moderating a conversation on Arkansas PBS TV among philosophical opponents on a controversial current issue.

#153, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, Part 2, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, March 25, 2026

In Part 2 of our three-part conversation with Robert Steinbuch - Law Professor at UA Little Rock and one of Arkansas's leading government transparency advocates - Rob takes Glen and April inside the real-world mechanics of the Freedom of Information Act. He recounts how his FOIA research on law school admissions and affirmative action sparked controversy at his own university, ultimately producing scholarship cited by Justice Thomas in a landmark Supreme Court opinion. Rob walks through the practical nuts and bolts of making Arkansas FOIA requests, breaks down the law's exemptions, and makes a pointed distinction: Arkansas's FOIA is among the best in the nation, but the federal version goes too far in shielding government from accountability. The conversation then broadens into First Amendment territory — an instance when he changed his mind about what constituted legitimate free expression, the role of a free press as the public's proxy for transparency, and the limits of government regulation of social media.   It's a sharp, practical, and occasionally provocative look at transparency and press freedom from someone who has both studied and fought these battles firsthand.

#152, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Part 1, March 25, 2026

In this first part of our interview with Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Glen and April explore Rob's personal and professional background. Rob describes his family's immigrant history and their experiences under Nazi persecution, explaining how those stories — along with a family tradition of teaching and his own love of learning — shaped both his values and his path into academia. He connects that history directly to his current work: enforcing the Freedom of Information Act and Arkansas's gun laws, arguing that laws without effective enforcement are meaningless — a lesson written in the Holocaust's failures. Rob also walks us through how he balances the three core responsibilities of a law professor: teaching, research, and service. The episode closes with his provocative views on institutional neutrality, particularly within academic institutions.

#151, OTOH, Gay White, Former First Lady of Arkansas & co-chair of Friends of Arkansas PBS, Part 2, March 24 2026

If you are following the controversy in Arkansas over defunding of PBS, this episode is a must for you! In the second half of our conversation with Gay White, former First Lady of Arkansas, April and Glen dig into why political discourse has grown so much more polarized — and who bears responsibility for turning it around. Gay shares what drew her to co-chair the Friends of Arkansas PBS initiative alongside Barbara Pryor, and why she believes preserving PBS is a cause that transcends party lines. We break down the Arkansas Educational Television Commission's recent vote to delay cutting PBS ties by 180 days, what the $2.1 million funding gap actually means, and how ordinary Arkansans can help close it. But the deeper question running through it all: in a media environment wired to reward outrage, how do you make a positive difference when you're just one person? Gay has a few thoughts on that — and a quote you won't forget.

#150, OTOH, Gay White, Former First Lady of Arkansas and current co-chair of Friends of Arkansas PBS, Part 1, March 24 2026

In this first part of Glen and April’s interview with Gay White, former First Lady of Arkansas, Gay discussed her early involvement in Arkansas politics, including working on David Pryor's Senate campaign in the early 1970s. She then shared her experiences when her husband Frank White, a banker, decided to run for governor against Bill Clinton in the early 1980s. Gay proudly noted Frank’s ability after being elected to get all his key goals enacted legislatively during this first term.  The discussion then focused on Gay's approach to cross-party relationships, particularly her friendship with Barbara Pryor, the former First Lady of a Democratic governor, who reached out to offer support as a new First Lady.  They have since maintained their friendship through their shared experiences as former First Ladies. April and Gay discussed strategies for maintaining relationships with people who have different perspectives, as Gay emphasized the importance of grace, mercy, and understanding others' perspectives while acknowledging that sometimes setting boundaries may be necessary. Gay explained that she looks past political labels to focus on people's character and common bonds, drawing inspiration from her late husband Frank, who was skilled at reaching across political divides. She also emphasized the importance of broadening experiences through travel and meeting people from different backgrounds.