On the Other Hand

OTOH #156, Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, April 6 2026. part 2

In Part 2 or our conversation with Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, Kevin opens up about what genuine bridge-building actually looks like from the inside. He's enthusiastic about Braver Angels and its contributions, but he's equally blunt about what doesn't work: "performative peacemaking" — the kind of conflict avoidance that mistakes niceness for progress. Real dialogue, Kevin argues, requires sincerity, integrity, and the courage to engage difficult differences rather than paper over them. Then comes a moment of refreshing self-disclosure. When Kevin reached out to friends to brainstorm how to connect across political and social divides, he realized — mid-call — he had been operating under an unconscious bias. Hear from Kevin about this moment of honest self-reckoning, a process he says is essential before any meaningful conversation can happen with others. The episode also touches on religious diversity, the surprising common ground found between thinkers as different as Robbie George and Cornel West, and what it might take to build a more inclusive Arkansas — though Kevin is candid that he doesn't have all the answers. A conversation marked by humility, hard questions, and genuine hope.

OTOH #155, Dr. Kevin Heifner, local physician, writer and community activist, part 1, April 6 2026

In this first part of Glen and John’s interview with local physician, writer and community activist Dr. Kevin Heifner, we wondered: what does a nephrologist with 35 years of practice have to say about faith, politics, and the state of American civic life? Quite a lot, it turns out. Kevin talks about the community work that keeps him engaged beyond the exam room — and why the same ethic that drives him to treat every patient equally drives his passion for bridging divides in public life. Shaped by a father who traded the pulpit for philosophy, Kevin brings a nuanced, shades-of-gray perspective to questions of faith and social ethics, including his work with Good Faith Media and the Baptist Center for Ethics. The conversation gets lively when the labels come out — or rather, when Kevin pushes back on them. "Progressive." "Conservative." He argues these words don't clarify; they dehumanize. And in a culture built on tribal sorting, that's a problem worth talking about honestly. A conversation that doesn't flinch from the hard questions.
 

#154, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Part 3, March 25, 2026

In this third & final part of our interview with Robert Steinbuch, law professor and government transparency advocate, Glen and April explore several key issues with Rob. He outlines the tension between FOIA's essential role in exposing government behavior and the equally legitimate need to protect private citizens' personal information — and candidly addresses why ordinary people struggle to enforce their own privacy and defamation rights when attorneys won't take the cases. Rob turns a critical eye on legal academia itself, describing what he sees as a pronounced left-of-center monoculture in law schools, and he recounts the controversy at UA - Fayetteville's Law School, where legislative pushback over a dean search put the tension between academic independence and government accountability on full public display. He reflects on his view of the proper — and improper — roles of government in institutional hiring at state-funded universities. The conversation broadens to Arkansas's societal divides, where Rob argues that while political polarization gets the headlines, economic and racial fault lines run just as deep. He closes with a personal story from a Republican Party meeting where he chose procedural fairness over possible strategic advantage, and he shares reflections from his experience moderating a conversation on Arkansas PBS TV among philosophical opponents on a controversial current issue.

#153, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, Part 2, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, March 25, 2026

In Part 2 of our three-part conversation with Robert Steinbuch - Law Professor at UA Little Rock and one of Arkansas's leading government transparency advocates - Rob takes Glen and April inside the real-world mechanics of the Freedom of Information Act. He recounts how his FOIA research on law school admissions and affirmative action sparked controversy at his own university, ultimately producing scholarship cited by Justice Thomas in a landmark Supreme Court opinion. Rob walks through the practical nuts and bolts of making Arkansas FOIA requests, breaks down the law's exemptions, and makes a pointed distinction: Arkansas's FOIA is among the best in the nation, but the federal version goes too far in shielding government from accountability. The conversation then broadens into First Amendment territory — an instance when he changed his mind about what constituted legitimate free expression, the role of a free press as the public's proxy for transparency, and the limits of government regulation of social media.   It's a sharp, practical, and occasionally provocative look at transparency and press freedom from someone who has both studied and fought these battles firsthand.

#152, OTOH, Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Part 1, March 25, 2026

In this first part of our interview with Robert Steinbuch, professor at UA-Little Rock School of Law and government transparency advocate, Glen and April explore Rob's personal and professional background. Rob describes his family's immigrant history and their experiences under Nazi persecution, explaining how those stories — along with a family tradition of teaching and his own love of learning — shaped both his values and his path into academia. He connects that history directly to his current work: enforcing the Freedom of Information Act and Arkansas's gun laws, arguing that laws without effective enforcement are meaningless — a lesson written in the Holocaust's failures. Rob also walks us through how he balances the three core responsibilities of a law professor: teaching, research, and service. The episode closes with his provocative views on institutional neutrality, particularly within academic institutions.

#151, OTOH, Gay White, Former First Lady of Arkansas & co-chair of Friends of Arkansas PBS, Part 2, March 24 2026

If you are following the controversy in Arkansas over defunding of PBS, this episode is a must for you! In the second half of our conversation with Gay White, former First Lady of Arkansas, April and Glen dig into why political discourse has grown so much more polarized — and who bears responsibility for turning it around. Gay shares what drew her to co-chair the Friends of Arkansas PBS initiative alongside Barbara Pryor, and why she believes preserving PBS is a cause that transcends party lines. We break down the Arkansas Educational Television Commission's recent vote to delay cutting PBS ties by 180 days, what the $2.1 million funding gap actually means, and how ordinary Arkansans can help close it. But the deeper question running through it all: in a media environment wired to reward outrage, how do you make a positive difference when you're just one person? Gay has a few thoughts on that — and a quote you won't forget.

#150, OTOH, Gay White, Former First Lady of Arkansas and current co-chair of Friends of Arkansas PBS, Part 1, March 24 2026

In this first part of Glen and April’s interview with Gay White, former First Lady of Arkansas, Gay discussed her early involvement in Arkansas politics, including working on David Pryor's Senate campaign in the early 1970s. She then shared her experiences when her husband Frank White, a banker, decided to run for governor against Bill Clinton in the early 1980s. Gay proudly noted Frank’s ability after being elected to get all his key goals enacted legislatively during this first term.  The discussion then focused on Gay's approach to cross-party relationships, particularly her friendship with Barbara Pryor, the former First Lady of a Democratic governor, who reached out to offer support as a new First Lady.  They have since maintained their friendship through their shared experiences as former First Ladies. April and Gay discussed strategies for maintaining relationships with people who have different perspectives, as Gay emphasized the importance of grace, mercy, and understanding others' perspectives while acknowledging that sometimes setting boundaries may be necessary. Gay explained that she looks past political labels to focus on people's character and common bonds, drawing inspiration from her late husband Frank, who was skilled at reaching across political divides. She also emphasized the importance of broadening experiences through travel and meeting people from different backgrounds.

#149, OTOH, April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, part 3, Feb 12 2026

Check out part 3 of our conversation with April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, on our On The Other Hand podcast. Share with others who might find it of interest.
Summary: In this third and final part of our conversation with Dr. April Chatham-Carpenter, April reflects on what gives her hope for Arkansas and the nation. She describes Braver Angels' philosophy of "calling in rather than calling out," shares practical steps any listener can take to build better relationships across divides, and offers a personal invitation to the upcoming Braver Angels national convention in Philadelphia. April closes with a reminder that real change begins with listening — and that most Americans are closer to the middle than our politics suggest.

#148, OTOH, April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, part 2, Feb 12 2026

Check out part 2 of our conversation with April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, on our On The Other Hand podcast. Share with others who may like it.
Summary: In this second part of our interview with Dr. April Chatham-Carpenter, April discusses what she sees as Arkansas's most pressing divides — rural/urban, racial, economic, and faith-related — and shares what she's actually seen work in bridging them. She describes Braver Angels' new direction under CEO Maury Giles and his vision of "Courageous Citizenship," and talks about her priority of building local community alliances and engaging conservative faith communities across the state.

#147, OTOH, April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, part 1, Feb 12 2026

Check out part 1 of our conversation with April Chatham-Carpenter, new state coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas, on our On The Other Hand podcast. Share freely with others.
Summary: In this first part of our interview with Dr. April Chatham-Carpenter, April shares her journey — from an aptitude test that launched a career in communication, to her discovery of Braver Angels and why its mission immediately resonated with her. She reflects on how communication sits at the heart of both polarization and healing, and describes her path from early Braver Angels volunteer to national leadership roles. April also introduces listeners to her new role as state co-coordinator for Braver Angels Arkansas and what drew her back to focus locally.